Comments on: Visual Studio 2010 Gets Serious about Visual Metrics – Screen Shots Here Look Promising but still no NDepend…. http://team.pushbomb.com/2008/10/13/new_screen_shots_visual_studio_2010/ tv programmed by the collective Mon, 08 Mar 2010 23:37:38 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: dDamon Wilder Carr http://team.pushbomb.com/2008/10/13/new_screen_shots_visual_studio_2010/#comment-383 dDamon Wilder Carr Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:34:44 +0000 http://dcarr.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/new_screen_shots_visual_studio_2010/#comment-383 <strong><em>I imagine this in a whiny voice (but not you, an entire group of developers who have a lot of catching up to do).</em> <blockquote>Why are you being so negative about these new features? </blockquote> Because it is a joke in 2008 to pretend these are new, or even interesting topics. .NET mass market developers often feel the rules of the game do not apply to them (the rules being what any self-respecting Java/C++/Smalltalk developer could have told you a decade ago). Jaded? Of course I am. I've been using .NET on large teams/systems for a decade and my #1 problem? People who can talk like software engineers, people who have a moral purpose to not be OK but excellent. If you want real visualizations please go here fast: www.ndepend.com. No offense but I'm curious what you will do with them. The people who understand my sarcasm above often share my life inside the branch/merge product line model level hundred+ component enterprise cross-platform work of deep complexity where managing dependencies is not a game for the timid nor concurrently evolving reused assets breaking various branches you intend to merge into your mainline for your framework core at least, where regressions are just assumed in real-time, generating vastly more then above and doing it using tools like NDepend for a few years now. If someone wants to be 'sold', discussion over as not my ideas, not my job to teach what you should know unless you really do care and are genuine in your desire to be an OK developer. <strong> Then I will give until it hurts.</strong> Where ASP.NET MVC would have been nice seven years ago and Scott Gu is cool and all but I am saying nothing ALT.NET has not said far better and far stronger then I ever could. BREATH.... Anyway you were saying? Damon I imagine this in a whiny voice (but not you, an entire group of developers who have a lot of catching up to do).

Why are you being so negative about these new features?

Because it is a joke in 2008 to pretend these are new, or even interesting topics. .NET mass market developers often feel the rules of the game do not apply to them (the rules being what any self-respecting Java/C++/Smalltalk developer could have told you a decade ago).

Jaded? Of course I am. I’ve been using .NET on large teams/systems for a decade and my #1 problem? People who can talk like software engineers, people who have a moral purpose to not be OK but excellent.

If you want real visualizations please go here fast: http://www.ndepend.com. No offense but I’m curious what you will do with them. The people who understand my sarcasm above often share my life inside the branch/merge product line model level hundred+ component enterprise cross-platform work of deep complexity where managing dependencies is not a game for the timid nor concurrently evolving reused assets breaking various branches you intend to merge into your mainline for your framework core at least, where regressions are just assumed in real-time, generating vastly more then above and doing it using tools like NDepend for a few years now.

If someone wants to be ’sold’, discussion over as not my ideas, not my job to teach what you should know unless you really do care and are genuine in your desire to be an OK developer.

Then I will give until it hurts.

Where ASP.NET MVC would have been nice seven years ago and Scott Gu is cool and all but I am saying nothing ALT.NET has not said far better and far stronger then I ever could.

BREATH….

Anyway you were saying?

Damon

]]> By: Daniel Lidström http://team.pushbomb.com/2008/10/13/new_screen_shots_visual_studio_2010/#comment-381 Daniel Lidström Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:10:27 +0000 http://dcarr.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/new_screen_shots_visual_studio_2010/#comment-381 Why are you being so negative about these new features? What is wrong with all developers being part of the architecture? I look forward to the new Visual Studio. I think visualization can really help in letting everyone (developers&managers) understand a complex application. Also, disallowing shortcuts to take place (UI talking to DB) is sometimes a complex thing (especially if you have legacy C++). Not every project is perfect you know. Tooling support can really help here. Why are you being so negative about these new features? What is wrong with all developers being part of the architecture? I look forward to the new Visual Studio. I think visualization can really help in letting everyone (developers&managers) understand a complex application. Also, disallowing shortcuts to take place (UI talking to DB) is sometimes a complex thing (especially if you have legacy C++). Not every project is perfect you know. Tooling support can really help here.

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